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Thread: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

  1. #1
    Crapaholic Leo's Avatar
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    Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Some excerpts from the CrackForum:

    "Engines fire .... 300 fans go wild."
    ...followed immediately by:

    "That did look pretty bad. Seemed more crew than fans "
    and...

    "Probably about the same 10-20K that attend most Indy Car
    Not sure why anyone would want to attend an Indy Car race (outside of the one in May) with how dull, predictable and stale the product is. So really can't blame anyone for not going or watching at this point...."
    "Sad to say, but an estimate crowd approaching 20K would be a gift IMO. It wasn't very good on TV so I have to believe it wasn't any better in person...."
    Even our old friend Michael Knight (Obi?) of the Arizona Republic puts a hopeful spin on the crowd size:

    "Saturday night’s crowd was roughly comparable to last year’s 18,500, as estimated by azcentral sports. That was not profitable and the absence of noticeable improvement is a disappointment. The race was shifted to late April to avoid conflicting with the NCAA men’s basketball Final Four in Glendale...."
    ...which is then countered by a realistic CF poster:

    "PIR has a seating capacity of 51,000 (another AZ Central article puts it as 50,000) so to get to last years estimated crowd of 18,500 we'd see more than every third seat filled. That clearly wasn't the case last year and this year's crowd was even smaller."
    And that's just the downbeat discussion about crowd size. What about the Nielsens and the "race quality" of the desert disaster itself?

    More to come...


    P.S.: And lest that last poster forget, only two or three of the grandstands were open to attendees. So what does that make it...only about 40% (~20,000 seats) were available to begin with? Or am I wrong here?
    "I'm on a track and I'm traveling so fast.
    Oh for sure I'm crazy..."


    "I Am An Animal" - Pete Townshend, 1980

  2. #2
    Crapaholic Leo's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Also from the CrackForum...this, on the quality of the "race" itself:

    "Ouch. Lets just call it what it is, that was a very bad race. Boring and to be honest IndyCar has only themselves to blame...."
    "There were only fourteen passes for position in the top ten in this race, and only ten after the opening half-lap."
    "ANOTHER all 4 car DNF for Andretti Autosport.

    Alonso must be getting nervous."
    "Indycar needs a big rethink on ovals. I think the first question I would ask if running any ovals beyond Indianapolis is contributing anything to the health of the series. What just happened was a giant billboard shouting "don't watch". An appropriate gesture would be to refund the ticket prices of anyone in attendance. It couldn't cost much...."
    "So is moving the start/finish line to turn 2 going to bring the fans back??? I think not. Let's face it, Phoenix draws the NASCAR crowd but how long is Indycar going to circle this track with empty stands. It looked pretty thin tonight in the areas fans were allowed to sit."
    "I am worried about Iowa and Gateway."
    "Its just disturbing that as bad as last year's race was, IndyCar still chose to do nothing and allow an even worse snoozefest. If its the first race there, I get it. Things happen, you can miss the mark on configurations. But to have the data and information at your disposal and to do nothing to improve it is just unprofessional."
    "Look at the bright side... If the race bored you to sleep last nite at least you caught up on some sleep...."
    "What law firm do I call to inquire how to sue to get my three hours back? To quote Don, this event was "Sad!" I can hear Alonso thinking to himself. "Indy 500, yeah...this type of folly, no."
    "Fewer fans this year, Arizona Republic had an article estimating 7,000. I was there last year and last night. After the performance last night expect even fewer next year. Total incompetence, they knew they had a bad product last year and did nothing to fix it."
    "I saw the AP estimated 7,000 but the Arizona Central estimated around 18,500."
    "Just sad. And it will likely be even smaller next year thanks to IndyCars incompetence."
    "I'm on a track and I'm traveling so fast.
    Oh for sure I'm crazy..."


    "I Am An Animal" - Pete Townshend, 1980

  3. #3
    Crapaholic scorpion's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Leo, I took a gander over at TF. They have a rate the race poll. More than 50% rated it a 4 or less. And those are the gung ho gomers. I guess it really stank.
    "Those stupid IRL cars, they have the nose-up thing."-Mario Andretti

    "It's the IRL, STUPID!!!

    Don't blame the economy. The iRl's been shutting down venues even in the best of times."-ClutchX

  4. #4
    El Crapador
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    seen as low as 6k attn....
    sorry butt didn't cart command 60k+ & also great ABC numbers ???
    before NASCRAP/IRHell bastardized the flat oval....

  5. #5
    El Crapador
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    seen as low as 6k attn....
    sorry butt didn't cart command 60k+ & also great ABC numbers ???
    before NASCRAP/IRHell bastardized the flat oval....

  6. #6
    Crapaholic RealRaceFan's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Leo... just wondering what the comparison of Michael Knight to Obi Wan is all about?
    As far as I know, from chatting via PMs with him here, he's never worked as a reporter at the A/Z Republic.
    Champ Car rocked the world and died a sorry death at the hands of the BIG GIANT FEMININE HYGENE BAG trifecta... FTG FKK and anyone else that believes in this Shyte called SPindy Crap Razin'.... Wake up Morons...It ain't racing

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    Crapaholic RealRaceFan's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    The only race I knew about this weekend was the Vlad The Impaler
    Sochi Grand Pricks?
    Some Finish dude named 'Boatass' won it over some whining German bitch who couldn't pull off a pass of Massatard on the final lap and wasted his faster car advantage because he was preoccupied with his usual bitchfest over the team radio.
    Geeez Sebtard, I thought you had finally learned to drive in traffic.
    Champ Car rocked the world and died a sorry death at the hands of the BIG GIANT FEMININE HYGENE BAG trifecta... FTG FKK and anyone else that believes in this Shyte called SPindy Crap Razin'.... Wake up Morons...It ain't racing

  8. #8
    Crapaholic Leo's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDevil1 View Post
    sorry butt didn't cart command 60k+ & also great ABC numbers ???
    Yeah. The last Phoenix CART race in 1995 drew 65k and IIRC a Nielsen rating of 3.2 ...but don't quote me on those ratings.

    That was the one where Whinedretti let Robby Gordon by for his first CART win. Guess his spotters thought RG was just getting back on the lead lap. Whoops.

    Gotta show this gem from the CrackForum. This moron is trying to say that PIR doesn't necessarily have the greatest racing if you look at their history.

    Oh, yeah?

    Here you go, picked at random from Phoenix: http://racing-reference.info/race/19...y_Bryan_150/UO

    *Only two cars led the race.

    *Winner was two laps ahead of everyone else; i.e., 2nd place was two laps down.

    *Only 40% of the field was running at the end (6th place was 6 laps down, 9th place was 11 laps down).

    *Pole speed 145; race speed 117.

    The good old days?
    Well, I never saw the 1978 Jimmy Bryan 150...mostly because USAC did such a piss-poor job of selling itself, the race most likely was not on broadcast television for us to see. But because CART did get ABC/ESPN to eventually televise its entire racing schedule, 15 years later, I was inspired to fly to Phoenix to see three world driving champions race the desert oval in the 1993 Valvoline 200.

    BTW...it's interesting this Gomer "randomly" chose this version of the first Phoenix race of the 1978 season, for it would be the last year for USAC to sanction races at PIR until 1996. The 1979 Jimmy Bryan 150 would be the first race of the inaugural season for the Championship Auto Racing Teams.

    But, to his point:

    "Only two cars led the race."
    Well...only three drivers led the 1993 race...Paul Tracy, Emerson Fittipaldi, and the eventual race winner Mario Andretti. PT took off like a bandit and led over 75% of the laps before crashing out in a spate of youthful exuberance, allowing his teammate Emmo to take over the lead.

    "Winner was two laps ahead of everyone else; i.e., 2nd place was two laps down."
    As was Paul Tracy when he hit the wall. And, yes...that means that Emerson Fittipaldi was two laps behind PT when he took over the lead.

    "Only 40% of the field was running at the end (6th place was 6 laps down, 9th place was 11 laps down)."
    Just over half of the field (13 of 25) took the checkered flag in the 1993 race. 6th place was 5 laps down, and Lyn St. James, finishing in 13th place as the lowest-scored driver still running at the end, finished 11 laps down.

    "Pole speed 145; race speed 117."
    Pole speed (1993) 173, race speed 124. So what is that supposed to tell us?

    A few more stats from Racing-Reference.Info might be revealing here. Such as the number of cautions in a 150-mile race (5 for 23 laps) versus the 4 cautions (37 laps) in a 200-miler. So why then did the 50-mile longer race in 1993 take only 20 minutes longer...even though it ran under yellow for 14 more laps than the 1978 race? A more efficient race sanctioning body perhaps?

    One other thing. While Racing-Reference.info did not report attendance for the 1978 Jimmy Bryan 150,it did for the 1993 race at Phoenix:

    50,000 in attendance for the Valvoline 200.

    "The good old days?"
    Hell, yeah. That 1993 race was one of the best and most exciting I've ever seen. Tons of passing...yeah, much of it by Paul Tracy, but plenty of passing for position throughout the race. Two laps up? So did that last? And how about Emerson Fittipaldi taking over the lead from PT...only to crash out from running over his teammate's debris?

    And what about 53-year-old Mario Andretti taking over the lead and running to the checkered flag for his final CART/IndyCar victory...almost five years after his last win at Cleveland?

    The good old days? Yeah, moron...give me races like that any day of the week.
    "I'm on a track and I'm traveling so fast.
    Oh for sure I'm crazy..."


    "I Am An Animal" - Pete Townshend, 1980

  9. #9

    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    What good ol' days in the IRL are they talking about???? There was CART and some stink before and after it.

  10. #10
    Crapaholic Leo's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRaceFan View Post
    Leo... just wondering what the comparison of Michael Knight to Obi Wan is all about?
    As far as I know, from chatting via PMs with him here, he's never worked as a reporter at the A/Z Republic.
    Some other crappy posted it as rumor/fact in here some time ago...but it wasn't me. Since "Obi-Wan" seemingly has disappeared for good without challenging the allegation, I have been left to wonder myself. Hence the question mark.

    If anyone knows more about it, chime in.
    "I'm on a track and I'm traveling so fast.
    Oh for sure I'm crazy..."


    "I Am An Animal" - Pete Townshend, 1980

  11. #11
    Crapaholic Leo's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Wha' happened, Robin? You get bit by a low-slithering snake there in the desert?

    My question is...was his first name "Anton"?

    From RACER.com:

    MILLER: IndyCar's desert debacle

    Monday, 01 May 2017
    By Robin Miller



    If the IndyCar paddock could send a message to the few thousand souls who showed up at Phoenix International Raceway or the people trying to watch Saturday night's race on NBCSN, it would be brief and heartfelt:

    We're sorry.

    "They should refund everyone's money," one prominent driver said afterward.

    Because the first oval-track show of 2017 was a 250-lap dud – 90 minutes of running in place where the leader couldn't lap last place because they were both running the same speed.

    The only lead changes came on pit stops, and other than Josef Newgarden early and J.R. Hildebrand late, passing was passť. And an untimely caution removed any chance of drama, scrambled the front-runners and gave Simon Pagenaud a stress-free run to the checkered flag.

    But the real downer is that it probably didn't have to be a snoozer.

    Following IndyCar's return in 2016 after an 11-year absence, it was obvious something needed to be done about the aero package for this legendary, one-mile track that was built for Indy cars in 1964.

    Last year's race was a carbon copy of what transpired on Saturday night so IndyCar staged a test last October to come up with a possible solution.

    And Ryan Hunter-Reay felt like it was a success. "We tested different downforce configurations while running together and we found a solution," the 2014 Indianapolis 500 winner said.

    The eye of the storm, according to the drivers and teams, was the undertray on the Dallara DW12. Running one without a hole in it allowed the cars to get closer and make passing possible. (And the hole in the under tray is to keep the cars on the ground if they spin and go backward on a superspeedway).

    Hunter-Reay lobbied hard for IndyCar to change, but because all of the teams would have had to spend money to fill in the hole, it was decided to remain with the status quo until the new aero kits arrive in 2018.

    After last February's open test at PIR, most of the veteran drivers correctly predicted that Saturday night's Desert Diamond Grand Prix of Phoenix would be a stinker without making that change.

    "It doesn't make any sense to come back and put on the same show," said Hunter-Reay.

    To be fair, Jay Frye and his staff at IndyCar have been great at listening to the paddock, using common sense, thinking ahead and being proactive. Plus, car owners are always bitching about spending extra money with sponsorship dollars hard to secure, so maybe there wasn't a real push to make a change (except by the drivers).

    But, looking at the big picture, IndyCar couldn't afford another stinker in Phoenix, and Saturday night could be the death knell to a destination that IndyCar needs to see succeed.

    There were fewer people in attendance this year, and the ones who came were put off by 22 laps of caution (why not throw the red flag?) following a first-lap, five-car pileup and then by the drudgery of watching cars run in place. USAC’s Silver Crown prelim on Saturday afternoon was five times more entertaining.

    Rookie Ed Jones is good racer doing a damn good job for Dale Coyne, but in his first-ever oval race he managed to keep Dixon, Tony Kanaan and three-fourths of the Team Penske armada behind him for 20 laps.

    The magic of a mile oval is traffic and how the leaders deal with it. But that was non-existent again on Saturday night, and Firestone's tires seemed to be too good and too consistent, so there was no major grip loss.

    There is one year left on the Phoenix contract. PIR's Bryan Sperber has embraced IndyCar like few ISC tracks ever have, and his relationship with Frye is a big reason why IndyCar is back in the desert where it belongs.

    Talk of trying to run Long Beach and Phoenix back-to-back like the old days or possibly even make PIR the season finale is all good. And there's little doubt that next year's aero package will make the racing much better. It couldn't be any worse.

    But the worry is, how do you get anybody who paid for Saturday night's abysmal show to come back in 2018?

    "I think the fans deserve a better show than we gave them," said Tony Kanaan. "I hope they give us another chance."
    "I'm on a track and I'm traveling so fast.
    Oh for sure I'm crazy..."


    "I Am An Animal" - Pete Townshend, 1980

  12. #12
    Crapaholic RealRaceFan's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Some other crappy posted it as rumor/fact in here some time ago...but it wasn't me. Since "Obi-Wan" seemingly has disappeared for good without challenging the allegation, I have been left to wonder myself. Hence the question mark.

    If anyone knows more about it, chime in.
    Well, I only mind what Obi told me here in PMs, take it for what it's worth... Obi is not Michael Knight.
    Their styles of writing do not really compare and from reading both of their opinions on CART/CCWS and the IRHell, Obi Wan was an avowed IRHell hater, Michael Knight, not so much.
    Champ Car rocked the world and died a sorry death at the hands of the BIG GIANT FEMININE HYGENE BAG trifecta... FTG FKK and anyone else that believes in this Shyte called SPindy Crap Razin'.... Wake up Morons...It ain't racing

  13. #13
    Crapmaster
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    This is so FIRL. We need to put a hole in the tub to keep the cars from flying, but you can't race because you have a hole in your tub. Low tech solutions for a low tech series...

    I'm surprised they didn't just whip out the duct tape...

    AJ would be proud!

  14. #14
    El Crapador Rus'L's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    "Indycar needs a big rethink on ovals. I think the first question I would ask if running any ovals beyond Indianapolis is contributing anything to the health of the series. What just happened was a giant billboard shouting "don't watch". An appropriate gesture would be to refund the ticket prices of anyone in attendance. It couldn't cost much...."

    I am completely speechless that this was written on the CrackForum. Absolutely, completely speechless.

    The past 20 years was for ... remind me again ... what?!
    "I was once a supporter of the original IRL concept. Unfortunately, I fell for one of the biggest cons racing has ever seen." -- a TrackForum diehard.

  15. #15
    Crapaholic RealRaceFan's Avatar
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    Re: Fallout from Saturday night IndyCrap fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by Rus'L View Post
    "Indycar needs a big rethink on ovals. I think the first question I would ask if running any ovals beyond Indianapolis is contributing anything to the health of the series. What just happened was a giant billboard shouting "don't watch". An appropriate gesture would be to refund the ticket prices of anyone in attendance. It couldn't cost much...."

    I am completely speechless that this was written on the CrackForum. Absolutely, completely speechless.

    The past 20 years was for ... remind me again ... what?!
    20 years of...
    Mercan' dirt circle jingoism
    Desperation
    Failure
    Furriner' hatred
    Death
    Destruction
    Massively declined interest
    Pathetic TV and attendance numbers
    No sponsors
    S.hitty racing
    S.hitty race cars
    S.hitty drivers
    S.hitty owners
    S.hitty tracks
    S.hitty management
    S.hitty TV contract
    Pretty much 20 years of S.hit!!
    Piled a mile high....
    Champ Car rocked the world and died a sorry death at the hands of the BIG GIANT FEMININE HYGENE BAG trifecta... FTG FKK and anyone else that believes in this Shyte called SPindy Crap Razin'.... Wake up Morons...It ain't racing

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