Is the DP01 already outdated?

[CARTchamp]

Looking at this years F1 cars with their raised cockpit sides for more driver head protection and considering one of the mandates the EARL has for its mythical new cars is to improve driver head protection in the same fashion. Was it a mistake to lower the DP01’s cockpit sides even compared to the Lola? I’m sure if they deemed it necessary they could fashion bolt on parts as Lola and Reynard did in the mid 90’s.

[Boogie711]

It raises an interesting point - I asked earlier, at what point, if any, is the DP-01 experiment considered a failure?

On-board starters? Nope.
Smaller? Nope.
Thinner? Nope.
Cheaper? OK. But if the goal is simply to be cheaper, can we not just run a bunch of Ford Escort's around a track and call it a day?

[thunderroad]

**** BREAKING NEWS

BOOGIE OFFICIALY DECLARES THE DP-01 A FAILURE.

There it's official Boogie, you happy now?

[Boogie711]

*yawn* Thunderroad - why you haven't made my ignore list is an odd curiousity I really ought to get around to fixing. The last intelligent comment I saw from you was back in April of 2006.

I'm asking a legitimate question. Can you imagine such a thing? I didn't think so. So - moving on - has the DP01 exercise been a success, a failure, or somewhere in the muddy middle?

[Rob Borchert]

Faster, better looking, contemporary, I'll take the DP01 every day!

[FuzzyCrappy]

Smaller? Nope.
Thinner? Nope.


Huh? Sorry, but what makes you think that "smaller" and "thinner" is better? Justin Wilson was adamant about not making DP01 "thinner", ie narrower car like F-1 did in 1998, when its specs were being hammered down. Also "smaller", ie a shorter wheelbase, is in no way a guarantee of performance improvement. Wheelbase is dependant on the unique aero and weight distribution of the car.

Did you perhaps mean "lighter"?

[BooBoo]

One of the key design parameters for the DP-01 was to manage the aero wake better to facilitate close following and passing. Even without any of the other aspects, achieving this would in my mind make the car a success, since it (combined with PTP) results in much improved racing.

Everyone will have to judge for themselves whether it was successful; I think the racing last year was closer with more on-track passing. Interesting that F1 has picked up alot of the technical cues that Champ Car initiated, including the managed aero wake and option-tire rules. Seems like those guys approve the direction Champ Car is taking the DP-01.

[CARTchamp]

They intended to make it narrower but found in the wind tunnel that narrowing a ground effect car is not the best idea. The felt it would greatly destabilize the car.

[Tex]

IIRC, several drivers commented that they were able to get up right behind the car in front which helped them set up passes that they would not have otherwise been able to make in the Lola. That would intimate that the car is racier than the Lola which was one of the mandates of the DP-01. It would seem, at least in that area, it was successful.

[anthonyvop]

In the world of Motorsports before the ink was drying on the design the car was outdated.

That can be applied to any race car in any series. It is the nature of the biz.

[Boogie711]

For the record, I love it. I think it's pure sex on wheels from an aesthetic viewpoint.

I'm disappointed that the fans were given a bill of sale regarding on board starters, and a promise of a thinner, lighter car. The idea behind thinner was not to emulate F1, but to give more room for racing on a track like San Jose where concrete walls place a hard limit on the amount of side-by-side activity.

Perhaps it's merely residual sour grapes from the "Champ Car will say anything to the fans, including promises of 24 car fields and better race cars" era. Who knows.

I like the fact they can follow each other more closely... however, I'm remembering 2007 compared to 2006, and can anyone honestly say the racing is better? I'm remembering Seabass and PT in Denver... Seabass and Justin Wilson in Mexico City...

Then again, in Cleveland this year we had that great battle between Doornbos and Graham Rahal.

Hmmmm....

[Gearbox]

I remember noticing in Portland and in Cleveland that there were still several nose-to-tail packs some 25% of the way through the race.

One of the problems with a spec-racer formula is that you can't design a new car every year, so other than ironing out small problems, you're stuck in 2007 until you design a new one.

[ABES]

^Probably as much fuel management as the raciness of the DP.

Two goals were important IMO, one better racing: check

two lower costs: check

Onboard starters were in, but money was too tight to finish development. I won't stick a fork in the eye of Panoz or CC for that failure.

[nissan gtp]

Overall I'd say the DP01 is a success technically, but falls somewhat short on the business side. Many, including me, hoped it would do for Champ Car what the new Atlantics chassis did for that series: namely, greatly increase the number of participants. It didn't. That said the DP01 is new and has a lot of potential. I would love to see CC step up and build an oval version (probably just a few body aero bits) to show what it can do.

[GPR]

I'm disappointed that the fans were given a bill of sale regarding on board starters, and a promise of a thinner, lighter car.

I'm sure the ones who footed the bill for the R&D and the teams who planned and maybe brought on additional personnel for the matter are more dissapointed than most fans. I give them points for trying though, but maybe open wheel cars shouldn't have starters?

Perhaps it's merely residual sour grapes from the "Champ Car will say anything to the fans, including promises of 24 car fields and better race cars" era. Who knows.

Forsythe speculated they may have had as many as 24 cars on the grid. Several entries that had been figured on dropped out after that, including a 2 car Gelles team which declared it had already ordered the cars. 24 cars was looking correct until 6 of those entries dropped out. IMO the fact that they dropped out is more of a concern than a guesstimate quote, not a promise, from a series owner.

I like the fact they can follow each other more closely... however, I'm remembering 2007 compared to 2006, and can anyone honestly say the racing is better? I'm remembering Seabass and PT in Denver... Seabass and Justin Wilson in Mexico City...

Watch the San Jose race, a race at a track declared impossible to pass on. Since the DP01 has been around for one year and the lola had been around for what... 6 years? I'm sure I can come up with more passes during the lola era than the DP01 era. A downside of the new car is also that teams don't have backups in some cases, so they couldn't be as liberal with replacing whole cars (parts, yes, car writeoffs no).

[ABES]

Overall I'd say the DP01 is a success technically, but falls somewhat short on the business side. Many, including me, hoped it would do for Champ Car what the new Atlantics chassis did for that series: namely, greatly increase the number of participants. It didn't. That said the DP01 is new and has a lot of potential. I would love to see CC step up and build an oval version (probably just a few body aero bits) to show what it can do.

The Atlantics chassis had the help of the $2m prize.

If the DP01 intro came with a $10m bump in the purse those 24 cars would likely have been a reality. In hindsight probably would've saved some coin.

[TheMapman]

The only problem with the DP01 is that there aren't more of them.

[tifosi77]

Please don't equate safety in F1 with safety in general. I think Formula One has gone so far overboard in the last 15 years, it has taken too much away from the thing that separates racing drivers from stick-and-ball athletes.

The newly raised cockpit sides are a prime example.

In order to better protect a driver in the event of a shunt, they have raised the sidepods making the already badly restricted lateral vision almost non-existent... which in turn might actually lead to more car-to-car contact.

The DP01 is a net winner, even if it fell short of some of its key design goals. But overall I think it's success outstrip its shortcomings.

On aesthetics, I preferred the Lola design concept. But let's face it - the DP01 is a great looking car, too, in its own right. In a world where the primary competition run cars that are downright wretched, style points count. :)

Where I wish the DP01 were 'better' was in the area of high speed drag. I don't like that the car can barely get up to 190 mph on the longest straights in the series. I know it's just a number, but still.

[RealRaceFan]

The only problem with the DP01 is that there aren't more of them.

Exactly...Would love to see 26 of them on a track at the same time... WOW

Perhaps one day.... I can dream can't I?:D

[BrianRedman]

I'm sorry they didn't persevere with the starters, but it didn't hurt the competition any. I think they look great, seemed pretty reliable for a first-year car, improved passing, and brought some of the smaller teams to the front. Take Bourdais out of the equation and the season might have looked a lot different. Overall, the DP01 was a genuine success, and probably a big reason for keeping every team in Champ Car for '08, despite the offer of so-called 'free' IRL crudbuckets.

[CARTchamp]

As far as giving us a new racier car i think it was a success. Its not all they promessed but its cheaper and does race a little better and they couldnt keep patching up the old Lola's forever. As far as looks and so on I'm not a fan of the DP01 at all, while not as ugly as the crapwagon or A1GP car to me its pretty close, I find it drab and over styled. I still dont understand why they went to all the expense to create a car that has the aero to pass and then gave it the biggest on track passing/action driver aid of all electronic paddleshift.

[colognecapri]

I liked how the Lola looked more, but did like the supposed extra passing the DP01 brought. To me the dissapointment of the DP01 was the now forgotten lease program didn't bring all the new teams it was supposed to. Also, I think there is a good chance there would have been a bigger field last year by 1-2 cars if the teams could have used existing equipment, (example, Conquest might have run two cars, etc.). Lets face it, the casual "fan" doesnt even know the difference the DP01 and the Lola, and any racegoer would have liked a bigger field.

[Indy]

I think the DP01 has been a total failure for the same reason that each of the IRL's specs have been complete failures -- both series failed to make their formulas revolutionary enough to capture imaginations and/or reduce costs to the teams.

Personally, I would like to see an expensive manufacturers series, but given the fact that this option was off the table, it was critical to make the car much less expensive than its predecessor. If the car had been designed from a clean sheet with the goal of removing all excess cost, and Cosworth had done the same with a new engine, hundreds of thousands per car could have been saved and our car count today could be at least adequate.

[CCFUNTIME]

If concerns about driver head protection are an issue then maybe they should invent some kind of snap on rollcage that doesnt obstruct vision or go back to the days of having a windshield of some sort. Changing the chasis in a way that reduces driver vision is idiotic but I guess it doesnt matter if the cars are not supposed to pass each other on track without getting the ok from management.

The only failure I see on the DP-01 is the starter.

[Indy]

but I guess it doesnt matter if the cars are not supposed to pass each other on track without getting the ok from management

Good point.

[LongShanx]

The Atlantics chassis had the help of the $2m prize.

If the DP01 intro came with a $10m bump in the purse those 24 cars would likely have been a reality. In hindsight probably would've saved some coin.

You hit the nail on the head. Put a $10
million dollar carrot out there and you will have a boatload of jokers beating down the doors trying to get in even the traitors. Money talks all that of BS walks. Why CC hasn't done this is beyond me.